There is a new story circulating today that a former assistant—Paul
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Re: Armstrong doping question
Tue, 05 Apr 2005 14:56:23 +0100
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <norfolk.ins...@dev.null...

In recent times, yes. Mr Bush has a talent for inspiring distaste. But people have been making the same claims about Lance for years, certainly since before Operation Oily Residue started.—Just

Baloney! Euros were trashing candidate Bush well before he was Prez. It isn’t Bush so much as it is American conservativism. Euros are "liberals" in an American sense.—Stephen

Up to a point, Lord Copper. I think you will find that those behind, for example, smirkingchimp.com are not in the least European. Opposition to Shrub is far from exclusive. You have the germ of a point about Europeans being liberals by the American definition, but only because the GOP has moved so far to the right that there is no place else to go other than to the left of it.

If you look at <politicalcompass.or> and compare the epicentre of the US polits <url:<f2s.com> with that of UK ones <url:<f2s.com> it looks to me as if the two are not as far apart as you make out. John Kerry is to the left of our supposedly left-wing Government. There was at least as much opposition here to our Government invading Iraq as there was to Shrub, probably more so since the consensus is that our Prime Minister is an intelligent and well-informed man who should know better.—Just

From the European view that’s probably true. It’s most certainly not from this side of the great waters.—Stephen

Maybe. As far as I can tell the current crop of economic right politicians in the US (and over here) are so close to the edge of the scale that they’ll soon be needing to add some extensions to it.

I find it interesting that the "left-wing liberal" John Kerry is actually solidly in the right-wing authoritarian quadrant of the political compass.—Just

Heh. And from Hawaii, I guess California looks eastern. ;-)

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles <habcycles.c> Home of the $695 ti frame—Mark

I think this is the link Guy is talking about. <politicalcompass.or>

Yes, at first this seems odd, but the more you listened to him the more authoritarian Kerry sounded. He wants it all does his way (and everybody who didn’t was stupid); his way was just different that Bush’s way (and, for some Bushites, everybody who didn’t was immoral). Of course, for real authoritarianism you can’t do better than Hitler, Stalin, Arafat, and the like and neither Kerry nor Bush was out there.

In terms of right versus left -- well, you have to see who’s out there on the left. You also have to bear in mind that Kerry was a rich man (and married to a rich woman). This is also true of a number of "liberal" Democrats (the Kennedys being one example). Nothing rich politicians do is really designed to impoverish themselves.

You should try the test, Mark. It’s good for a few minutes thoughtful amusement. Just for grins, I’m at about -4, -4 (which will only make sense after you take the test yourself).—Mike
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Again, an absolute definition of "intelligence" based on political perspective.

Speaking very broadly, Conservatives trash you by saying your position is "immoral", Liberals trash you by saying your position is "ignorant".—Stephen
 
 

Saudi Arabia and all those phoney little fundamentalist fiefdoms are conservative, Iran is conservative. Korea and China are conservative.

You’ll find that most places using or condoning torture are conservative.—Zoot

Wonder why they never did with Merckx, or Hinault or Indurain? Especially so for Mercks since he was so much more dominant.

And don’t say the "techniques" weren’t around. The Eastern Europeans were doing some pretty amazing things to "help" human athletic activity during Olympic competition even in the 50’s.—Stephen

Could be because he raced in all the races, not just one a year. Put yourself in the place of an average team cyclist, racing every other day during the season. Who would you rather be beaten by, a man who’s been riding alongside you through all those races or one who arrives fresh to take the one race everyone in the world has heard of and every cyclist wants to win?—Just

I’d rather not be beaten at all! —Stephen

And the fact that one rider comes in fresh while you’ve been riding flat out for weeks helps this how? ;-)—Just

Doesn’t at all. Are race organizers supposed to define how a racer gets to a race? Should the TdF be like a NASCAR race series where everyone drives cars that are largely standardized, not allowing automotive technology to dictate a winner?

Perhaps to qualify for the TdF you have to ride certain races and finish in certain ranks? Is there something like that already in place? I don’t think I could just sign up for it, so there must be some sort of prerequisites.

At any rate, race criteria don’t prohibit someone from doing as Lance does (specialize). If you choose to run yourself ragged riding flat out every weekend that’s your choice. If that isn’t to your liking, choose another race program.

Trashing Lance for his specialization strategy seems rather shallow, although it certainly is a consideration in determining his place among the greats of bike racing.—Stephen

Why not? You have to accumulate your brevets to ride the big randonnees, after all. —Just

Have you seen the UCI regulations on bike construction? They would have a NASCAR designer tearing his hair out! —Just

Which is all I was doing. Or rather, I was pointing out that doing this does not make one anti-American.—Just